Curse

Viruzzz · Jun 24, 2006, 12:08 PM // 12:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I disagree with everyone in this topic

Ritualists are better Healers than Monks.

Three words: Attuned Was Songkai

That nearly halves energy costs (at 13 Spawning). In theory, that would give Ritualists nearly a double Energy Pool and nearly double the Energy Regeneration.

Also factor in Soothing Memories. For Ritualists with an urn, that's a FREE HEAL. For Ritualists with AwS, you GAIN ENERGY

Rits may not defeat Monks w/ Divine Favor, but they can last much, much longer.

carrying items it not allways a good thing, you lose the bonuses of your weapons set, so saying they have twice the energy is simply wrong. you will be down to 30 energy, or more if you are wearing + energy armor.

its a bit more than a monk can get to, but not that great.

secondly, monks are faster healers, you can not use a ritualist for any kind of spike healing, they don't have that many short cast spells

i like monks better, a ritualist is a lot easier to shut down than a monk, also, a lot of the condition/hex management you have on a monk is simply non-existant on the ritualists. they can only heal.

Vermilion Okeanos · Jun 24, 2006, 12:37 PM // 12:37

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

You're buying what with the money you got from selling your mom's stereo?
The monk's recharge speed on healing spells beats the Ritualists' and with Divine Favor, the overall healing ability is greater. The main thing that the Ritualists have is that their spells arn't anywhere near as balanced as Monk spells are, or Monk spells are too nerfed. Either way.

Why do you need the better recharge when you have serveral healing skills? The only moment you need to spam heal is when your team had a dumb aggro, then after you spam, you will be out and dead.

When I play a monk, I would never spam my spell. Neither will I when I was a rit. (unless I am e/mo)

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

That's just ridiculous.

Do me a favor, go look and memorize their skill list.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

If all you do is compare to boon prot, of course the ritualist has better energy management and it seems all you care about is boon prot monks and thus your opinion is rather moot due to not being impartial and entirely biased.

Wth are you talking about? Boon prot got better energy management than majority of the monk out there. While many of monk's good energy management come from 2ndary and most of them is open for strip.

While that, boon prot is the only monk that is the pain in the ass comparing to every other form of heal. If you going to replace something, you have to beat their best. Rit simply can not compete with boon prot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr_T_bot

El/mo solely have pure output power going for them. But you can't be dedicated to both.

I can't believe you didn't see it. Full heal + celestial storm = you got both.

As to those people who support divine favor. When I play as a monk, I will be spending ALOT of attribute on my 2ndary for energy management, while DF would be the 3rd attribute. DF help, but not much at all. The only one that allow me to spam heal and not use 2ndary attribute is divine spirit + glyph of renewal, but in my opinion, that build take too long to start healing. In fact, if I going to go DF, I won't be doing healing at all, I will be proting... which means boon prot.

I would rather maintain my team in good health than to spike them with heals.

Merlin Munk · Jun 24, 2006, 12:53 PM // 12:53

U never played in PUG teams I see, It is very rare for a PUG team not too over aggro. So u do need too spam heal spells sometimes or someone dies, and they may do that anyway. But i guess if your team over aggro then u go back and let them die, res them and let them fight with DP. Sure its a good leason but most likely they will just leave party and make it harder for the rest in team. I have played both heal rit and heal monk and heal monk did better job. Simply cause the rit was covering whole team but couldnt save 1 person beeing pounded, So rits are very good for support, with both prot and heal options, but in pure heal, counting the amount of healing points u can do over a time, the monk will win.

Former Ruling · Jun 24, 2006, 02:19 PM // 14:19

Thats the thing....A Ritualist thats pure restoration is completely gimped if he is trying to spike heal someone thats getting fire focused on him. Ritualist has ONE healing spell that heals for any large amount under fire, and it has a 10 second recharge and if you happen to not have a spirit near you its useless. Meaning you'll be spamming off 2-3 of your little heals to compensate.

Mr_eX · Jun 24, 2006, 05:11 PM // 17:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zinger314

I disagree with everyone in this topic

Ritualists are better Healers than Monks.

Three words: Attuned Was Songkai

That nearly halves energy costs (at 13 Spawning). In theory, that would give Ritualists nearly a double Energy Pool and nearly double the Energy Regeneration.

Also factor in Soothing Memories. For Ritualists with an urn, that's a FREE HEAL. For Ritualists with AwS, you GAIN ENERGY

Rits may not defeat Monks w/ Divine Favor, but they can last much, much longer.

Also, combine a spirit-spammer with Feast of Souls and you have 200+ spike heal.

allience · Jun 24, 2006, 06:19 PM // 18:19

in pve a rt can replace a monk. in pvp no.

Mr_T_bot · Jun 24, 2006, 07:00 PM // 19:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vermilion Okeanos

Why do you need the better recharge when you have serveral healing skills? The only moment you need to spam heal is when your team had a dumb aggro, then after you spam, you will be out and dead.

Monks have a much larger collection of healing spells. Duh.

Quote:

Do me a favor, go look and memorize their skill list.

For what?

Quote:

Wth are you talking about? Boon prot got better energy management than majority of the monk out there. While many of monk's good energy management come from 2ndary and most of them is open for strip.

Irrelevant.

While that, boon prot is the only monk that is the pain in the ass comparing to every other form of heal. If you going to replace something, you have to beat their best. Rit simply can not compete with boon prot.

Quote:

I can't believe you didn't see it. Full heal + celestial storm = you got both.

What are you even talking about?

Quote:

As to those people who support divine favor. When I play as a monk, I will be spending ALOT of attribute on my 2ndary for energy management,

I don't know what your secondary is, but mine is Mesmer for energy managment, and Mesmer inspiration skills have a lower benefit to cost ratio at around 9 or 10.

Quote:

In fact, if I going to go DF, I won't be doing healing at all, I will be proting... which means boon prot

DF is support for healing

Only thing Rit have v Mo is Rit skills are less balanced comparably

Sacho · Jun 24, 2006, 09:00 PM // 21:00

I can't believe you are so dense to say that a boon prot's energy management is better than any healing monk's energy management. Boon prot's additional energy management is to offset the rather inefficient divine boon healing. Nothing is stopping a healing monk from taking the energy management spells that boonprots take, and having superior energy management.

The problem with a ritualist has already been stated. None of their healing skills synergize together well - and they all have way too long recharges. Want a decent soothing memories? You need to be holding an item. Want a decent weapon's boon? Oops, need a weapons spell. Suddenly your bar is filled with spells to support your heals, and you are left very short on skills.

I played around with a rt/mo with infuse health/generous, to offset the lack of spike healing. It was ok, but you have to chain spells to give out any decent healing, and chaining spells means you're kiting less, and kiting less means you're taking more damage.

In my opinion, ritualists should be taking the role of a protector, using those communing spirits, and maybe dabbling into restoration for a supporting, secondary heal.

Caleb · Jun 24, 2006, 09:13 PM // 21:13

I really enjoy playing Ritualist healer, but do not think it will ever replace a monk primary healer. It is far more useful as a protection/group shield character, at least in my experience.

Kern Wolf · Jun 24, 2006, 09:56 PM // 21:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by allience

in pve a rt can replace a monk. in pvp no.

Only speaking from PvE experience.....
If you're forming a PUG, and find yourself in need of a monk, a Ritualist (depending on their build) can work nicely.
Just did Hell's precipice with a PUG. I was the only monk, and there was a Rit. It was different, but not impossible.
I think, when it comes down to it, it depends on the skill of the player. I think you'd probably need to form a PUG, and, instead of taking 2 monks, grab 2 rits, and see how it works...

Age · Jun 24, 2006, 11:03 PM // 23:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lord Oranos

Attuned is a good elite, but, a monk will be able to heal for more, and at a faster rate. Ive been looking at Healing Light, its almost free for a huge heal, and with a 4 second recharge. Rits are good, but, to be honest leave the healing to the Monks.

Hehe, snipped out due to ignorance.

I was wondering are you referring to life attuement if so it isn't an elite barrier is?

Quote:

Originally posted byIllusiveMind I play a healing Ritualist and I am no match to a healing Monk. Sure I can provide support and all but that won't simply overdo' it. Weapon Spells are great support with good recharge time and casting time and of top of that, they can't be removed like many monk enchancements.

They can just recast those enchants doesn't take long and if they get stripped agian rinse and repeat.

IllusiveMind · Jun 25, 2006, 01:18 AM // 01:18

Quote:

They can just recast those enchants doesn't take long and if they get stripped agian rinse and repeat.

Don't you find it very annoying? Because I do...

samifly · Jun 25, 2006, 02:46 AM // 02:46

A ritualist doing restoration will not outlast heal-for-heal a healing monk, because they will have to heal for more, the heals are too conditional, and there are not enough heals. Rits are much better at protection.

kryshnysh · Jun 25, 2006, 04:39 AM // 04:39

I play a monk almost always. I PvE, I PvP. I played my E/Mo as a healer, I played my Rt/Mo as a healer. I gave up on the Rt/Mo as a full restoration Rt because I couldn't heal as well as a straight heal monk. I could do a lot more for a team as a Communing Rt with Ritual Lord with a splash of restoration (to supplement if the healer was having problems).

-The numbers don't favor the ritualist in terms of unconditional healing, per time, or per energy.
-If you want to argue energy management, please don't ignore how monks manage energy.
-If you're going to talk about elites, at least make sure to include elites on both sides.

The difference isn't enough that an experienced healer on a restoration rt won't be better than an inexperienced healer running a monk though. Not really different from an E/Mo healer.

In PvE, a good E/Mo healer can solo heal all of Hell's Precipice, and two bad monks won't go a battle (in Hell's Precipice) without running out of energy, even if they don't ever heal the same target at the same time. I'd bet I could solo Rt/Mo heal Hell's Precipice as well, just haven't tried it yet. Skill (and experience) means a lot; personal experience of seeing someone do or not do something means little without a good comparison.

Will groups ever use them as replacements? I've been in groups that didn't want a ritualist and wanted a real monk as the 2nd monk (then again I've also been in groups insisting both monks heal and neither prot), and I've been in groups that didn't care. Having played as both professions plenty now, I let them replace the 2nd monk for general play.

Kijik Oni Hanryuu · Jun 25, 2006, 05:22 AM // 05:22

Hmm I think it may be possible but first they need to nerf channeling and buff restore, now as everyone has said monks are better at direct heals, while rits are better at group stuff spirit to flesh anyone? I think that rits wont REPLACE monks but they definitely could coincide well with eachother, and if one were to perfect rit healing then they could possibly replace a heal monk, I am very open-minded about this.

lightblade · Jun 25, 2006, 06:28 AM // 06:28

NEVER!! For as long boon prot not getting nerfed!

Sacho · Jun 25, 2006, 12:16 PM // 12:16

Perhaps in pve, but in PvP, there are three major factors against rits:

1) Mobility. You don't always get to choose where the fight will happen, and this means you have to continuously reposition your spirits.
2) Kiting. Kiting is the number one damage mitigation, as it balances out the time investments with the energy investments. Ritualists have even more trouble kiting than healing monks, who already need alot of time investment to score their heals, which makes their kiting that much ineffective.
3) Harassing. Damage is not only dealt by the simple "I hit you for x points". Shutdown, interrupts, and others, also deal "damage" to the team because they prevent you from what you want to do. Again, ritualists suffer the same problems as healing monks, but even worse - easy to interrupt 1s cast spells, shutdown hits you hard, and most importantly - as a ritualist, you have to pack your bar with heals and supporting spells, which really tighten you up in terms of hex removal and condition removal, or energy management.

SilentAssassin · Jun 25, 2006, 02:36 PM // 14:36

I am thinking ALOT of you ppl never even played a restoration rit and they are saying it will never replace it, offcourse it will never replace a monk, they are different characters and have different abilities.

The build I use as a restoration rit are these:

weapon of warding
mend body and soul
wielders boon
spirit light
spirit channeling (elite)
recuperation
life
serpents quickness (ranger)

If you rly want to bash a restoration rit, first try it, this build is for 12v12 and I can keep my group up for a long time.

No healing monk or any other type of monk/rit can outheal a boonprot, I am not saying that boonprot's are overpowered, they are just better in most healing situations.

oh well all you ppl who think that restoration rits are worthless can say what they want, but I hope I come across your team so you can have a look.

fb2000 · Jun 25, 2006, 03:31 PM // 15:31

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sacho

Boon prot's additional energy management is to offset the rather inefficient divine boon healing.

why do you claim its inefficient? I can hardly think of another type of healer that can come even close to the boon prot healing power.. 7 energy costing very low cast times 150++heals do seem pretty good, no? if u use Heal other with divine boon things are starting to look ricidulous, but its not a common practice

thing is, boon prots pack the max possible healing power within the smallest package, ie, only 1 character. its a build that does pretty well under constant pressure, hence needing the energy management to be able to keep on healing/protting a lot constantly on long matches. thatd explain their use in 4on4 (tell me a group without one, spikers excluded..) and gvg

Mr_T_bot · Jun 25, 2006, 04:09 PM // 16:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by fb2000

why do you claim its inefficient? I can hardly think of another type of healer that can come even close to the boon prot healing power.. 7 energy costing very low cast times 150++heals do seem pretty good, no?

You forget Divine Boon decreases your energy regeneration.